Very much appreciate you. 14c28n is the most popular material for the knife: stainless steel and made by the Swedish company. Liquid steel is sprayed through a tiny nozzle, solidifying into a powder. Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? This is an old high-carbon (non-stainless) steel. Thanks. In use, its very similar to 440C and VG-10. There is one exception: Bucks 420HC (Buck and onlyBuck) is produced using a proprietary heat treatment. I would suggest adding a second axis to the ratings charts that show the data values that the 0-10 ratings are based on (unnotched charpy impact energy, 1% saltwater , Total cards cut, etc.). I believe they are made of simple carbon steel. Why do knives make the best gifts? show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. Steels do come at various price points, however, depending on the cost of producing them and the cost for the knife company to work with them. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. There are also hardness/toughness and hardness/TCC charts.but no tables backing this charts. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. I think this website is aimed at dispelling these kinds of assertions. I always thought VG10 to be way more chippy/less tough compared cpms45vn. D2 holds it for longer. It is a premium steel that is known for its excellent balance of hardness, corrosion resistance, and edge retention. Goes to show that science not marketing or conjecture is what determines a good steel, 51shitty? 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. D2 steel Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. grivory It also improves edge retention and strength. in the correct place for the stainless-toughness-edge-retention graphic? Honestly, yes, because its perfect steel for your knife, besides it depends on which knife, so when youre talking about chef knives, then 14c28n would be an ideal pick thanks to professional corrosion resistance and edge retention. All rights reserved. Id like to quote some of your toughness, edge retention and corrosion resistance for balanced midfield steels, including yours, in some data tables. It also tops out around 60-61 Rc like LC200N and needs relatively careful heat treating to even be that hard. 8670 and 5160 are good choices for large knives that need very high toughness. In general, steels look worse as you go up in hardness because the toughness is reduced by more than the edge retention is increased. Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. G10 What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. Still looking forward to magnacut making it into high volume production and use. It rusts like nothing Ive seen before and it dull just by looking at it. Thanks! Privacy Policy. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday Many steel ratings articles pay lip service to the importance of heat treatment without providing examples. Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it. there seems to be an optimal procedure for every alloy (provided its heat treated to industial standards). D2 is mainly considered decent budget steel that comes with better edge retention than the 14C28N. And easy to sharpen in our experience; and that will get an excellent razor edge that lasts for a reasonable price of time. If you shop for knives based strictly on steel, you might be disappointed. The ESEE had significant edge damage while the MagnaCut knife did not. Thats why it easy to work and looks nice. Though technically not a stainless steel due to its composition, in use it performs exactly like one. And Michael Fitzgerald, Tim Marais, and Head VI for increasing their contributions. Even metallurgists can have a difficult time estimating properties just based on the elements. Also I notice 1095 looks like another underperformer as there doesnt look to be any reason to use it over 5160 which I cant imagine is any more expensive than 1095. HA! If you want to learn more about a specific steel, you can click it in the sorted listings below. 440B Toughness is a measure of how much resistance a steel has to fracturing. Thank you for the accurate data. This is a bit of a guess because I cant find un-notched Charpy data on it. The knife does dull faster. This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. I tested its edge wear resistance but not its toughness yet. However, D2 steel has better edge retention, while 14C28N offers a better sharpening experience. It isnt impossible, but contrast may not be very good and the austenitizing temperatures of the two steels arent very compatible. I am particularly interested in researching knife steel, knife properties, and brands. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. Where the black-finished 1.4116 version has a simple, full flat grind, the D2 version has a compound flat grind that ends halfway up the blade's height. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. I cant seem to match steel to the SS data points on the toughness/tcc graph. I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. Spyderco has their own salt spray test setup to determine the corrosion resistance and they determined that MagnaCut is sufficiently corrosion resistant for their salt series of knives. VG 10 Steel, https://knifebasics.com/author/freelancer/, How To Choose Between The 14C28N And The D2, 14c28n Steel Is Good for Knife? But yes, I would assume that the general performance would still be relatively similar between them without evidence to the contrary. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. Spyderco and Cold Steel have used it, though Cold Steel recently switched to S35VN due to availability concerns. D2 seems to run at high hrc. Hi Larrin, thanks so much for writing this blog and putting so much reliable information into such an accessible form. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. The most significant cost increase comes from powder metallurgy, used to create most of the expensive knife steels. 20? Here its 8. drop point CROMOVA This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. These steels favor edge retention over all else. There are so many interactions between them that predictions are difficult without modeling software. Let the job at hand be your guide. Other factors include how thick your edge is, how dull your knife was at the start, the nature of the heat treatment, and what youre using to sharpen your knife. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. I guess the question is whether toughness increases faster than edge retention decreases. YMMV Cold Steel still uses VG-1 on some knives, and, for the money, it does well. Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. whats even more disturbing is that cvn and fracture toughness sometimes (often?) Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. In addition, According to Sandvik, 14C28N steel is easy to work on, reducing production costs and hence affordable knives. at least it has some vanadium over the 420hc. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. just recently the idea occured tome to sharpen a planer blade like a knife and check out how it performs. Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. Also, what kind of steel is used for utility knives? However, in our testing there is a reduction in toughness by using the high temperature range rather than the low temperature range, such as was found with CPM-CruWear (Z-Wear) or CPM-10V. Steels like CPM MagnaCut, CPM M4, CPM 4V, and CPM CruWear fit in this category. . In my experience, it will tarnish and discolor quickly. Heat treatment refers to the heating and cooling steps employed to achieve your knifes proper balance of attributes. As a result, there are no production knives with REX 121 steel, though Ferrum Forge used the steel early on in its custom knives and a Kickstarter knife from the Creely Brothers. Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. The maximum edge retention available in this group is not particularly high because most of the wear resistance comes from iron carbide, also called cementite, which is the softest of the different carbide types. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. It confirms what I always suspected and what anyone could have figured out by reading the technical data. For example, Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all nearly identical and indistinguishable in practice. You can see micrographs of different knife steels to compare their carbides in this article. In reality hardly difference. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. You said wood is not a particularly abrasive material and in absolute terms that is very true. . And before you start arguing on behalf of the steel you think might be perfect, let me remind you that if your knife isnt perfect for a task, youll need to get another one that is! It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. It gets exceptionally sharp, a nod to its origins as a razorblade steel. AR-RPM9 Although it should be noted that there doesnt seem to be a need for the stainlessness on a wood working tool. Heres a brief description of their impact on the resulting steels properties. The brand Bark River uses A2 in many models. I was thinking maybe Sleipner or A2 would be best if a PM steel was out. For instance, if a 35 edge in 1095 steel at 58 Rc provides appropriate toughness for planing hardwood, what edge angle in, say, AEB-L at 62 Rc might give us a comparable effective toughness? I used to work for a company that did reclaimed old growth lumber (swamp cedar, old growth pine and oak beams, etc) and we went through planer blades twice as fast as the cabinetry shop next door (turns out the neighbors like it when you put all the loud businesses together and far away), which mostly cut fresh cherry, oak, maple, hickory etc. So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. 1095 stains easily and thus is often coated, especially in fixed blades. Its soft, with very low carbon content. Not every wood is soft pine. It has a lower hardness and edge retention as compared to the 9Cr knife. Would love to see where S7 sits on the Corrosion/Edge/Toughness meter. Id think that line would be significantly to the left, more in the data swarm. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. Vanax and LC200N are unique in reaching 59-60 Rc while being very stain resistant. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. AEB-L We did the research to help you find the best hunting knife for your needs and budget. The biggest factor for cost of knife steel is whether it is produced with conventional ingot technology or powder metallurgy. How would n680 compare to m690? Note:There is a powder-metal version called CPM154 thats purer than the non-powder version, making it easier for knifemakers to grind. The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. I was wondering if the 14c28n sample was also prequenched like the AEB-L toughness samples? 9cr18mov vs 14c28n. LC200N has similar properties to those two but with saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. Is there some way we might predict the relative "effective toughness" of different steels at different hardness and at different edge angles? Top quality steel yields perfect toughness, edge retention, wear and corrosion resistance, an easy to sharpen, long lasting and durable everyday carry that will fast become a user favorite. Dr. Thomas you spoke of using a different media for cutting test and I have some extra veg tan leather and was wondering what are the parameters of the leather you need? 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. Ease of Sharpening: One advantage of 8Cr13MoV is that it is easier to sharpen than D2 steel. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? This particular steel grade allows for the highest attainable hardness without. The steel falls under the Sandvik series of steels and makes one of the 7 steel grades in this family including 12C27M, 14C28N, 13C26, and others. I made most of my leather knives from O1v (O1 with .20V) that I hold at 1475 for 15 mins and quench in 120-130 F AAA oil and Kevin Cashen is where those parameters came from btw. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. Could you please compare it to Shirogami #1 and Agomi #1, I didnt find anything in terms of grain size ragarding thoese steels on the Internert. : at a given toughness, magncut will have better edge retention in real life applications than s90v if it has optimal geometry (or maybe it wouldnt, just an example). When it debuted, Sal Glesser described XHP as a combination of D2s hardness and 440Cs corrosion resistance. It is an upgrade of 12C27, and 13C26 steel initially used to make blades for shaving razors. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. However, the 14c28n provides perfect edge retention with a maximum hardness of 62Hrc and the mixture of Chromium and Carbon. Ruike Sandvik 14c28n vs D2 looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. Like 154CM, there is a newer version, S35VN, which shares many of the same attributes as S30V but is easier to craft into a knife thanks to niobium. The studies confirmed that the primary controlling factors are hardness of the steel, volume of carbides, and hardness of the carbides. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and cant go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides. Larrin, thank you for this. In its most basic form, steel is just iron and carbon, but people have been studying, experimenting with, and perfecting steel with other elements for specific applications for millennia. It is a Sandvik stainless steel that originally developed for razor blades. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers.